People are interesting. Here’s how our minds work:
We form a belief or an opinion based on our emotional response to an idea.
Then we look for data to support it. This may be scientific evidence, Bible verses, or what someone else says.
Then we believe that we formed our opinion or belief through logic and reliable information, and that it is a fact.
From then on, any data that would support it aggregates to it.
Any data that doesn’t support it is either not noticed or is simply dismissed.
It becomes a cherished belief and is impermeable to new information.
If you try to argue with someone about their cherished belief, they bring up their arguments against you, and in doing so, their belief becomes stronger and more firmly entrenched.
Have you ever changed anyone’s mind about anything? I have – once.
Aren’t people interesting?
doug
Note:
In logic, this process is called “confirmatory bias”.
Note 2:
There are still people who do not believe ADD ADHD exists, or in using medication to treat it, or in climate change. I could go on, but won’t. Not today anyway.
Note 3:
I’m being provided with new information that goes against some of my beliefs. I’m struggling to evaluate it with an open mind. Struggling. Maybe more on this later.
Note 4: Thank you and welcome to all the recent new followers. I hope you will find this blog interesting and useful and that you will make comments. I love comments.
There’s still a little controversy.
ADDadultstrategies 
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Hello Doug,
If I want my wife to change here view on something it won’t work. However, if she hears from a separate source, from a friend or professional, what I’ve been trying to get across then she is more likely to change her view. Caveat #1 – I won’t get credit because she’ll claim that I never said such thing to her, but that is ok with me. Caveat #2 – I’m almost positive that I do the same thing with her.
The important aspect is that we both keep an open mind towards each other’s ideas. There have been times where several months will pass and we come around with “Now I see what you were saying”.
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BJ – I know what you mean! What I like best is when they say no no no, you’re wrong, and then a month later come up with, “I’ve just had this great idea!”. I bite my tongue and smile.
Thank you for commenting.
Doug
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This must be very common, as this happens often with MY wife too! Then there’s this: I just got off the phone with my wife after she called to ask my opinion on something. When she got angry after I gave my opinion I realized she really didn’t want my opinion. She really just wanted me to say “Do whatever you want, Dear.” They should give you a manual when you get married!
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jeff – a manual would be great, maybe I’ll do it. but the problems is each child is different and maybe so is each marriage. there is so much they didn’t tell us. maybe if they had, the human race would be extinct.
thank you for commenting
doug
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I do that, too! I figured out that what happens is that I process the idea my husband presented, mull it over and toss it around, and by the time I present it back to him, it seems like it was my idea. He points out that he already suggested it weeks or days ago and I realize he’s right – usually. Oops.
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homey – i usually try NOT to point out that i already suggested it. seems to work better for me. thank you for your comments.
doug
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It doesn’t bother me, Doug. In fact, it’s sort of a joke between us because I do it so much. We both think it’s funny especially since I have no idea I did it again until he points it out.
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homey- your sense of humor is one of your many assets and your hubby is pretty good too
thank you for commenting
doug
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This is true. And frustrating.
Is there a way to help someone with ADD who does not really want to be helped? I’m thinking no. But I wondered what you thought.
This person is willing to take medicine, but not to use any strategies. It seems to me that taking medicine is not supposed to replace strategies, it is to enable a person to adopt strategies. Right? So if the person is diametrically opposed to strategies, it is actually irresponsible to be taking medicine. Or so it seems to me. You may be able to change my mind . . . 🙂
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ruth -I try to avoid trying to change anyone’s mind anymore. But I think you’re right on target. One of the experts, Dr. Goodwin, says specifically, that the purpose of the medications is to help us focus enough that we can use strategies.
However, it may be for someone that the medications helps them focus enough that things are enough better that they don’t want to fool with strategies. Strategies are hard work. I wonder if there’s any other reason they don’t want to use them?
Thank you for commenting.
Doug
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Have you found that medications focus people enough so that they don’t need strategies? I did not see that when we tried medicine. Well, I saw improvement for about three months, and then everything went back to the way it had always been before. It seemed to me that it was unsound to continue to use the chemicals after the benefits wore off. I suppose that, ultimately, people will use strategies if they perceive the pay-off to be worth the hard work. They have to reach that conclusion on their own. I wish there were a way to help in that process, but I’m not sure if there is. Perhaps if I were wise enough to ask the right questions . . .
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ruth – I dont know if there’s an answer to that question. they may improve enough on the meds that they aren’t motivated to use the strategies cause theyre doing ok, but they probably would do even better with strategies.
fits with your excellent statement about the payoff – the problem has to bother us enough that we will do the hard work of the strategy.
if i’m reading you right, then i would suggest orlov’s book if you havent already – its for both of you, ideally read it together.
the effects of the medicine wearing off with time is a new concept to me? havent seen it.
thank you for commenting
doug
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ruth – i kind of missed your first question. well, yes and no. if someone doesnt want help, you cant force it. but you can let them enjoy the consequences of their behavior. let them clean up their own messes. dont be enabling. but – another but – that can be costly to you, if the electricity get cut off, or the car engine is ruined cause they didnt get the oil changed. you have to pick the things you cant afford to let go. it’s hard.
thank you for commenting
doug
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Hi Doug,
What you say is the truth, and I’ve seen it all through my life. And, like Ram, I sometimes try to get others to understand my stance on something rather than trying to convince them to accept my stance. I work to keep an open mind, and feel most people have already made up their minds – especially when it comes to politics or religion.
My favorite class in college was Deductive Logic, and it really opened my mind to the many ways people and organizations use unsound statements to encourage people to accept their propaganda as fact instead of the fallacy it really is. It appears that most people just care to listen to “sound bites” of information instead of really understanding a subject.
I’m trying to keep an open mind when it comes to the treatment of my ADD. I initially thought that my ADD could be controlled by taking Adderall (I’ve taken no drugs to help with my ADD to date), but now feel something else may be more helpful. I’d like to know how to proceed to get professional help, but don’t know where to turn: Should I see both a psychiatrist and a psychologist, or just one? And which is best to see first? Still haven’t figured that out.
Having ADD is tough enough, but another battle is finding the right treatment! Jeff
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Jeff – my bias is to see a psychiatrist first, because they can both do the evaluation and diagnosis and discuss the options of medication. however, the most important point is to start with someone who really does know ADD ADHD – whether psychiatrist, psychologist or certified coach.
Then if you want to really go first class, also find a counselor or therapist that knows ADD ADHD, because most of us carry a load of insecurity, shame, guilt, etc. etc. that we can use help with.
Medications can be extremely helpful for some people, not everyone, and one view is that they help us focus enough that we can use the strategies. See the other comments.
Thank you for commenting.
Doug
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Hi, Doug! You skipped day 602. :p
I don’t remember if I changed someone’s opinion in recent years. I’m a bit traumatized by something that happened in college once: I cut class for “Soil composition” once and the next class, I was so eager to prove myself that I hadn’t miss that much, I convinced the rest of my group that the long soil-strip-thingy we had to analyze was just dusty on top and it had nothing to do with the profile. Although both my colleagues had been to the previous class and were pretty sure I was wrong at first, I managed to convince them otherwise. I then found out I was wrong and was so embarassed about myself that I almost never try to convince anyone of anything. But I’m also allways reminded of the “Ash experiment”, so I also battle strongly against group opinion after I think about what I really believe about it. Am I making any sense? Well, I still argue (way too) passionately although I’ll put more effort into people understanding my stance rather than convincing them of it.
Anyway, now I’m kind of wondering what information you mean on Note 3. 😉
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ram –
thank you for catching my error, 602, I just corrected it. It’s nice when we can correct our errors with minimum damage resulting.
I will bring up the new information later – it has to do with alternative approaches to treating ADD ADHD.
I too find arguing generally ineffective. One more effective approach is to try very hard to understand their viewpoint, and where they’re coming from. Sometimes mutual understanding is the best you can hope for.
Once I thought the whole group was doing the process entirely wrong , and I told them of a much more efficient way to do it. They were reasonable and amenable to trying it. The result – total chaos! We all had a good laugh, no harm done, and I still feel embarrassed thinking about it
thank you for commenting.
Doug
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